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Truth Talk 16: The Lost Ten Tribes

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Truth Talk 16: The Lost Ten Tribes




James Scott Trimm and Steve discuss the Lost Ten Tribes


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Reviewer: JamesTrimm - favoritefavoritefavoritefavoritefavorite - October 8, 2012
Subject: False Review
Absolute falsehood I have never been a member of the Way International, nor have I ever even attended one of their meetings. You need to get your facts correct.

As for Michael Rood, I do not know Rood, I have not bet Rood, I have never seen Rooad and I ahve never even spoken with the man. I am still teaching the same basic theology now that I was teaching in the 1980's before Rood ever came on the scene.

This whole review by "help4truth is simply filled with falsehoods.

Also a response to some of the other Slander that has been posted about me on the internet:
http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8857000/8857710/1/print/sl2.pdf

And accusations of plagiarism were disproved in a federal lawsuit settled in our favor years ago:
http://nazarenespace.com/group/bewareslandererandlashonhara/forum/topics/accusations-of-copyright

Mr. Sourcesandfacts,

Not only do I claim never to have been a memeber of the Way International, it is a matter of fact that I have never been a member of The Way International, nor have I ever attended any of their meetings.

Furthermore your statement:

"You quote their founder Victor Paul Wierwille many times throughout your works, and in those cases you do so approvingly."

Is a flagrant lie. In fact I do not believe I have ever quoted Weirwille in any of my many books, approvingly or otherwise.

Also your statement “You quote George Lamsa in many places through what you say and write, and in those cases you do so approvingly. When you quote Lamsa, it is clear you are quoting him either because a) he supports your views or b) you are supporting his (depending on the particular context).” Is another flagrant lie. I rarely have quoted Lamsa, and when I have it has often been to argue against his points.

It seems you deal in lies.
Reviewer: sourcesandfacts - favorite - October 8, 2012
Subject: True Review
So you claim to never have been a member of the Way International...but

1. You quote their founder Victor Paul Wierwille many times throughout your works, and in those cases you do so approvingly.

2. You quote george Lamsa in many places through what you say and write, and in those cases you do so approvingly. When you quote Lamsa, it is clear you are quoting him either because a) he supports your views or b) you are supporting his (depending on the particular context).

3. George Lamsa was a (poor) linguist who advanced the view that the New Testament was written originally in Aramaic. Conveniently, Lamsa happened to have his own Aramaic New Testament (which he had translate INTO his aramaic from other non-aramaic sources) to offer for sale.


As others have pointed out:

" Victor Paul Wierwille became associated in 1957 with Aramaic Bible scholar George M. Lamsa,
and Lamsa finished his translating the Lamsa Bible in Wierwille's home. Lamsa and Wierwille produced the first American Aramaic New Testament in 1960. "

[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_International ]


4. Lamsa was a personal friend of both the founder of the Way International Victor Paul Wierwille , and William Branham.

[ source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M._Lamsa ]


5. Lamsa denied that Jesus was the Christ.

6. Lamsa's views have much in common with the occult view of christianity.

7. Victor Paul Wierwille and the Way International deny the historic Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
George Lamsa denied the historic Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
You (James Trimm) deny the historic Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

( and just to state the obvious: If you do not deny the doctrine of the Trinity btw, please clarify where you have ever stated this ! )

" The Way rejects the Trinity, and teaches that, unlike God, Jesus is not omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent. According to their ministry, Jesus did not exist before his birth except in the foreknowledge of God. The Way teaches that at his birth, God created the sperm to fertilize Mary's ovum, and is the literal father of Jesus. "

[ source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_International ]


One book written by Victor Paul Wierwille actually has the title "Jesus Christ is Not God",
in which he addressed his belief that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and Messiah but not a persona of the Christian God or a pre-existent being

[ source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Paul_Wierwille ]


The relationship between Lamsa and the Way International and its founder Victor Paul Wierwille, , has been well established:

" Wierwille, became associated in 1957 with Aramaic Bible scholar George M. Lamsa who
finished his translation work for the The Holy Bible from Ancient Eastern Manuscripts (Lamsa Bible) in Wierwille's home. Lamsa and Wierwille together produced the first American Aramaic grammar in 1960 for the study of Biblical manuscripts with the ancient Estrangelo letters.
Believing the original New Testament was written in Aramaic, he was a supporter of George Lamsa's translation of the Bible, and used it frequently. "

[ source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Paul_Wierwille ]


In reference to Lamsa and his version Bruce Chilton, scholar and prominent Aramicist, has said :

A still less defensible tendency confuses Aramaic of the first century with Syriac, a different form of the language. The approach of George Lamsa, who used the Peshitta Syriac version as an index of replicating Jesus’ teaching in Aramaic, has been taken up and popularized by Neil Douglas-Klotz. This approach willfully perpetuates a basic confusion of language, since Aramaic and Syriac come from different centuries and areas (although they are closely related Semitic languages), and is based on uncritical treatment of the Peshitta, a Syriac version of the Gospels


The well-known ministry Christian Research International (CRI) characterized lamsa as having occult theology (metaphysical teachings), which is not hard to agree with:


In 1989 the Christian Evangelical apologetics research ministry Christian Research Institute asserted in a published review that several of Lamsa's theological positions and interpretations were not supported by the Bible. The review concludes by saying:

"On the surface, Lamsa appears to be a revealer of biblical truth and culture and a friend of evangelical Christianity. Closer study, however, has revealed that Lamsa promotes metaphysical, not evangelical teachings which have led him to inaccurate interpretations and translations of portions of the Bible. As an ambassador of Nestorian, not biblical culture, Lamsa became a cultic figure in his own right."

[ source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M._Lamsa


On one of your websites, you clarify that the Way International initiated a lawsuit against you.
In that same comment you clarify that the Way International eventually settled out of court, and futher that THEY issued you a liscense to use THEIR material.

You stated:

" As many of you know The Way International had filed a lawsuit against myself and the WNAE (under our old name of SANJ) this last summer, alleging that portions of the HRV Scriptures infringed on the copyright of a translation they once published about twenty years ago."

So it was clear, that your association to the material of the Way International was a perception, held NOT ONLY by many who observed your work, but by the WAY International itself also !!!

Second, it was clear based on the comments you wrote, that the Way International clearly understood YOUR MATERIAL and YOUR [so-called] Bible Version to be based on and/or derived from THEIR WORK.

Your same article correctly noted:

" As part of the settlement they have issued us a permanent license with no monetary consideration. Also as part of the settlement we have maintained that there was no copyright infringement on our part, however we have also agreed as part of this license agreement, to henceforth give credit in editions of the HRV to the TWI version. (Thus allegations of copyright infringement are forever ended.). "

So the remedy for the lawsuit, from the perspective of the WAY International, was not to
clarify that you had NOT used THEIR material. But rather their remedy was that they retained the
rights to THEIR bible version, and issued a license TO YOU to make use of their material.

In other words, according to your own article, your material in your work and your bible version,
is derived from the work, material and content belonging to the Way International, and they have gratiously allowed you to CONTINUE USING that material.

Now WHY would anyone think that you are associated with the Way International, and their work and their theology ????

BECAUSE YOU ARE !!! and the lawsuit confirms that, further by the issuance to you of a Liscense from the Way International in order for you to CONTINUE USING THEIR MATERIALS in your version, your works, and the content of your enterprise.

So the Way International knows you use and used their material.

Those who watch and read or listen to your own work also understand and have correctly identified The Way International as a major source for your theology, your conclusions and your works, including your Bible Version.

And your work is also based on the work of Victor Paul Wierwille and George Lamsa who worked with Victor Paul Wierwille in the spreading and endeavors of the Way International.

You authored a document called " The truth and the evidence for the originality of the Hebraic Roots Version by James Scott Trimm"

" Around 1995 I was asked to serve on the Board of Directors of the Aramaic Bible Society, originally founded by Dr. George M. Lamsa." That statement is on Page THREE of your document. Clearly you are hardly distancing yourself from Lamsa, and in fact much of your work is based on Lamsa's work and conclusions.


As to Rood, and your association with him, or your syncronicity with his views, lets just say that
others have pointed this out. One example is here at http://www.seekgod.ca/trfactor2.htm .

Again this is just putting basic facts together. Your claims about Jesus Christ are false.
Your claims about who is the Messiah is false. Your understanding of the history of Biblical manuscripts is very colored by Victor Paul Wierwille and Lamsa, both of whom were horrendous scholars and worse theologians. By all historic standards of Christianity, you deny that the Jesus of the
New Testament is the Christ-Messiah. You further deny the Trinity and other major points
of Christian doctrine. You can teach what you want but it is not Orthodox non-talmudic Judaism,
and it certainly is not historic Biblical Christianity. Your views are closest to the Unitarian- New Age [Origen-based] Way International, and the statements made by others should be a strong warning to those who are seeking truth or historic accuracy through your materials. They will be appear to be wanting for a very long time.

As others have asked of you:

As seen on some postings, Mr Trimm now wishes to disclaim the Way International.

- Will Mr. Trimm also Disclaim the false version of George Lamsa ?

- Will Mr. Trimm also Disclaim his own work based on the the false version of George Lamsa ?

- Will Mr. Trimm also disclose the relationship between George Lamsa and Victor Paul Wierwille who founded the Way International ?

- Will Mr. Trimm also disclose and admit that his Hebrew Roots Version of the Bible is a re-tread
of the material of the Way International, and that his HRM Version of the Bible, is possible because the Way International issued a liscence to Him, for Free, in order so that he (James Trimm) could make free use of the Way Internatinonal Version of the Bible ???

The Hebrew Roots Movement promoted by Mr. Trimm is another vehicle for the work and errant doctrines of the Way International, which contradict 2000 years of Christianity.

- Surely Mr. Trimm is aware that there are 25,000 portions of the New Testament that have been discovered in Koine Greek, and that this includes 5000 koine GREEK manuscripts, and another 20,000 lectionaries in which the passages from the New Testament have been discovered, and that THEYare written in ancient koine GREEK ???

- Does Mr. Trimm understand that these are ancient GREEK manuscripts from all over the world and not Aramaic ???

- Will Mr. Trimm also Disclaim the work of those who deny the Trinity ?

- Will Mr. Trimm also admit that His Messiah is not the Jesus Christ of the historic New Testament ?


[ The_Way_International ].

[ George_M_Lamsa ].

[ Victor_Paul_Wierwille ].

[ About Hebrew Roots].

[ Frequently Asked Questions About Hebrew Roots ].

[ Problems with the Sacred Name movement ].

[ which Jesus -which Christ ].

[ george-m-lamsa ].
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